Posted by: FLPatriot | April 3, 2009

“Religion is the downfall of our country”, really?

I have come across several atheists that have made this claim. I would like to challenge those that believe this to point to the bases for this claim. Name one country, or empire, that has lasted for more than 300 years without a religion being at the base of their civilization.

Do not read anything more in to this than what is on the surface. I am not saying that a civilization can not survive without religion or that one religion creates a better civilization than another. This is just a conversational study of the topic. Thank you in advance to anyone that contributes.


Responses

  1. ““Religion is the downfall of our country”, really?”

    I hope I’ve never made this claim. [To the best of my knowledge you have not. – mcoville]

    I would make the claim, however, that certain religions that I see presented by certain people would lead to the end of America as a free and democratic society.

  2. To many atheists, religion is basically all the same to them. In other words, they would lump Christianity with Islam or New Age when in fact they are clearly all three are different.

    While it’s true, bad things have happened in the past using the name of the Lord, but that doesn’t mean those things were endorsed by the Lord neither does it mean it’s a common practice with Christians!

    Since communism came into being, 150 million people have been killed under it’s rule which doesn’t make them any different from those who did similar things but used the name of Christ.

    Many of those atheists in which you come across are merely at war with Christianity so they fail to address both sides but rather just focus on their bias.

  3. “”Many of those atheists in which you come across are merely at war with Christianity””

    That was well put. It would have taken me some time to come up with a sentence like that.
    But I agree. Some atheists, not all, seem just to want to fight with Christians. They want to wipe Christianity from the face of the globe.
    But not all atheist are riding on the same bus, and are not all headed in the same direction.

  4. oh dear humanity…

    how long since reason and questioning have been your driving force and not blind faith?

    does doubt pull at the back of your mind about your beliefs?
    have you truly found proof of your lords existence somewhere other than in your mind.

    i am an atheist

    all religion and false belief is the bane of humanity’s existence and especially its advancement.

    THINK. don’t pray

  5. I would have to say that of most of the atheists I have met do believe that religion is evil. On the other hand I am an atheist who believes that religion can be wholesome, good, and truly righteous. It can provide good morals and values when it is not taken too far. People can take anything too far on both sides of the spectrum, and it is wrong to lump christianity in with islam and judiasm because they are all different. People are all different. However I would have to say that in some cases religion is easily used for evil to hide behind. I do believe that this is a small minority, however it is something that needs to be discussed. I know this a touchy subject but I have witnessed true and underserved pain in people I care about. If christianity is to truly to seem as open and loving to every person as it is supposed to, it needs to make strides concerning homsexuality. Now while I know that quite a few people are oppsed to holy matrimony, I do think that gay people deserve some of the rights antiquated with legal marriage. Civil unions should incorporate these rights, but currently they do not. Gay people are indeed people and deserve the right to visit their commited partner in the hospital, and make vital decisions as well. If they commit to living together and adopting children, they also deserve the proper tax breaks. It is quite easy to believe in something so deeply that one loses sight of other people’s feelings. I belive that in this case christianity has done just that. I cannot prescribe to the idea that some very good people should not have the rights that every other American has simply because a group of people decides that they don’t agree with their lifestyle. Futhermore is goes against the very core of christianity to deprive others lives of happiness due to one’s own beliefs.

  6. I’ll handle this one, mcoville. Bhops, get a clue. Of course, how would you even know, even if T. D. Jakes himself gave you a clue with a giant Large Print clue map to show you where it is? It’s not too late to renounce your latent homosexuality and get back into the J man’s good graces, otherwise it’s the fires of hell for all eternity for you, something even your precious Darwin can’t save you from.
    P.S. PLEASE I beg you do not have sex with either your dog or your neighbor’s dog. If you do get the urge, consult your Bible.

  7. Zunedita373, you cheeky scamp. Mayhem wherever you go (which I luuuuurve btw).

    Thing is mcoville religion is used to excuse some pretty dark stuff. We probably would be a lot better off without it. What you get with most atheists is that they are nice to other people just cos it’s nice to be nice. And I have to say I prefer an honest, stand-up, out and out despot to one who’s pretending to be doing god’s work. You know where you stand with them. It’s quite clear to everyone that they are mentally unwell. When religion is brought in to the mix it’s only obvious to the atheists (and anyone of a different faith) that the person spouting this stuff is mentally unsound.

    If we all just started being nice to one another and chucked the crazy books away I think society would be a much nicer place to play. As it is I have to contend with people rapping for Jesus on the street when I’m trying to do my shopping which makes me mad. I then have to stay in my house so I don’t have to hear the Jesus rap and I find it much harder to be nice to people.

    And I know it isn’t very nice of me to say that religious people are mentally unwell but I can’t find any other reason why anyone would believe in this stuff, I really can’t. Maybe I would be nicer about it if the rapping would just stop!!!

  8. @ Michael

    “To many atheists, religion is basically all the same to them. In other words, they would lump Christianity with Islam or New Age when in fact they are clearly all three are different.”

    All the intelligent atheists realise that most religions are basically the same in that they involve a belief in something for which there is no evidence. Intelligent atheists can form rational arguments against the majors tenets of religions separately as that is where the differences lie but the upshot is the same when I am faced with a christian, muslim, wiccan, hindu, scientologist, zoroastrian (you get the picture). Any religion which has deities at its core is essentially the same. There is a belief in something which cannot be proved and therefore can and should be challenged.

    You seem annoyed that atheists rail against christianity (after petulantly stating that you don’t like being lumped together with the other, presumably wrong, religions). Is it any wonder? Christianity, in all its guises, has done so much harm throughout the decades. It has fed on fear and oppression and lives on in the hearts and minds of the dumb and frightened. I’m sorry if you feel that you come under attack more frequently than any other religion but the phrase “you reap what you sew” springs to mind. If christianity and christians were good and right then there’d be no need for any backlash. This simply isn’t the case. You and yours keep calling homosexuality a sin, you want to ensure that children are kept in the dark about science, you want to oppress women by preventing abortion, you stick your beaks into so many things which have nothing to do with you and upset vast swathes of people in the execution of this.

    I, for one, am sick and tired of it. I would LOVE to live in a world where there is no religion WHATSOEVER. I firmly believe it would be a better place than the world we live in now. I would love to see people thinking for themselves the world over and not have to worry about what some religious nutjob is going to do next. Sure there’d be plenty of other stuff to worry about but at least there’d be one less thing.

    Maybe if I pray really hard Jesus will make it so!

  9. “If christianity and christians were good and right then there’d be no need for any backlash””

    Thanks for this post sukey

    What I have found out is that not everyone who claims to be a Christian, is actually a Christian.

    Many claim the title. On the outside, they wear the label of a name brand product, but inside the guts are all cheap and worthless. There is no medical test to determine who is of the True Faith or not. How can we tell who is a good guy today or just another FAKE.

    Anyone who claims to be a Cristian, and is still killing people, like you mention above, is probably NOT a Christian, but using the name for their own agenda.

    I know many wonderful Christiana who would not harm a fly. I do not need to be a Christian or any other faith to be a good man.

    The moral of this message is. “Do Not Believe Everything That Someone Tells You”.

    The true test of many religions today, is in the practice. If the religion has peace and love at its core, and the practitioners are all going nuts with guns and bombs, then you should question that.

  10. Is this blog still here? Oh, good No Lord. Oh, but it’s like Lays Potatoe Chips… Dan Quayle can’t misspell just one.

    Good to hear from you again, Sukey. Your icon looks much better than my icon here, I must say. But not by much. But I’m afraid God has hardened Michael’s heart. Besides, he’s too busy fighting the Commies. While I disagree with the 150 million dead figure, I think the best way to prove that is the same test I use to prove carbon dating or evolution: I ask someone who was there. I ask the 150 million if they were killed or not. Better yet, let someone else do it. All I know is China is a Communist country, and they’re kicking our a… kicking us in the place we don’t let the door hit us on the way out. Maybe Communism’s the way to go! And let’s face it: all this railing against child labour, well, it’s like the Geneva Conventions. Quaint notions for a world of yesterdecade. Kids are the only ones willing to work! We’re getting beat in the global marketplace by children in India sewing up soccer balls for 50 cents a day! Taiwanese children making Nike shoes for 27 cents a month! Brazilian toddlers growing our cranberries for 12 cents a year! You can’t beat that bottom line!

    I think what Michael’s trying to do is equate atheists with racists. By saying that we think all religions are alike, he’s trying to say that that’s just as bad as saying something like “All white people look alike.” Which I’m willing to take a stand here and say is not true. Not all white people look alike. Rush Limbaugh is one ugly specimen of white person, and looks nothing at all like Zac Efron. Shyeah, right! He wish!

    No, the fact is that Christians are too busy keeping their heads above water to worry about who’s co-opting their brand lately. Not one of them will stand up and reject the ravings of Ann Coulter or Sean Hannity. And once again I turn to the thoughts of St. George of Carlin, regarding abortion: something near and dear to all Christian hearts: “Catholics and other Christians are against abortions, AND they’re against homosexuals… Well, who has less abortions than homosexuals? Leave these people alone, for Christ sake! Here is an entire class of people GUARANTEED never to have an abortion! And the Catholics and Christians are just tossing them aside! You’d think they’d make natural allies.”

    All right, my work is done here. Smell ya later.

  11. “the same test I use to prove carbon dating or evolution: I ask someone who was there.” Really, who did you talk to that was there when a monkey gave birth to the first human?

    The fact that you paint religion with broad strokes to protect your beliefs does not cover up the truth. Christianity is different to all other religions, the easy fact that it is true and all the others are false proves that but there are deeper theological reasons it is different.

    There is only one true test to find out who is a Christian, either I will see them in heaven or they will be alone in hell. But this leads to why you, and so many other atheists hate Christians, I do not want to see anyone go to hell. I will take your ridicule and condiscending attitude in hopes that one person that reads this will be saved.

    You can build as many rabbit trails as you want but at the end of the day I still care what happens to you. Now this does not mean I want you to be happy now, doing what ever sinful act you want, but that I want you to be happy for eternity in heaven. You see that life on earth is short but an eternity in heaven is forever. Which life would you want to sacrifice for the other, now or eternity?

  12. paul8bee

    I agree with you up to a point but the problem with the true/false christian argument is that we don’t know. If someone says they believe in Jesus how can we know that they don’t? Some christians say that the only true version of their religion is that which appears in the gospels; the version which purports to be the teachings of christ. I bet those self same christians would not renounce the old testament if pushed. The book on which their faith is based is ugly and destructive and there are many ways in which people can damage others.

    If someone believes homosexuality is a sin and lives their life according to that belief then they can do harm to people who aren’t harming them; if they protest against abortion they could harm the rights of people who do not subscribe to their way of thinking. It’s not just gun toting lunatics who are dangerous. Religion, in almost all of its guises, is about oppressing people. It is, and always has been, about controlling people and that’s what makes it dangerous.

    It scares me that people who have religious beliefs have any power at all as their screwed up moral code could have an impact on my life. That is not on.

    I understand what you say about the way people living their lives being the only true way you can judge them but christianity doesn’t have peace and love at its core. It is violent and it hurts people and will continue to do as long as it limps on. Those who practice is are guilty of allowing this rot to fester and hurt people and I find it truly terrifying that it still exists in the 21st century, I really do.

  13. mcoville…

    I get that this is your blog and you are a believer but I would have thought even you would want to try and build up a proper argument when you are challenged by someone who has read a few books and engaged their brain, rare as they may be in your world….

    “The fact that you paint religion with broad strokes to protect your beliefs does not cover up the truth. Christianity is different to all other religions, the easy fact that it is true and all the others are false proves that but there are deeper theological reasons it is different.”

    Is your argument REALLY “We’re right and you’re not, nah nah, nah, nah, nah.”? You get that everybody else thinks they’re right too, don’t you? And given the Jews made your god up first then they probably have dibs on him. Deep theological reasons? Go on then.

    The fact is that, to atheists, you aren’t really any different to anyone of faith. I know you want to feel special but you’re not. The history of your faith is the reason it is so often singled out. It has caused so much pain and suffering to get and remain where it is and that’s why it comes under fire. Islam is creeping up there and Judaism gets plenty of stick cos they think they’re special too and create mayhem in the name of religion. You all do. You all think you are chosen, and special and you can’t all be right. I’m quite sure that if I asked a muslim if they were right they would also be pretty convinced they were.

    Please do not be sooooo arrogant as to assume that I hate christians. I know you’d love it if I did. I hate christianity. I hate it just the same amount as I hate islam and judaism and….we’ve been through this. YOU AREN’T SPECIAL! You’re just a dude who believes in something I think is bonkers. I hate to disabuse you of your superiority, or persecution, complex but you just don’t matter that much. And as for being saved…well, obviously I don’t really view your monstrous religion as being capable of saving anyone.

    Which sins exactly do you think I’m guilty of? Hmm. You know nothing about me except that I think your religion is a bit bonkers and you decide that I’m a super sinner (or if that comment was aimed at zunedita373 you don’t know about them either). You make assumptions because you don’t think outside your own little box. You personify everything that is wrong with your filthy little religion. Which would I rather sacrifice? Sorry dude, I just don’t believe in that whole heaven thing. I’d much rather live a good life on earth, do right by people be they gay, straight, christian, muslim, witch… whatever really. And if it turns out you are right and I am wrong, your god’s meant to forgive all kinds of stuff; I’ll point out all the nice things I did and ask him to let me in. If he says no I’ll probably be better off downstairs.

  14. zunedita373

    YOU ROCK!

  15. “If someone says they believe in Jesus how can we know that they don’t?””

    Thank again for your time to comment sukey

    Here is how I see it.

    I believe I am the King Of Spain
    That belief does not make me the King of Spain.

    I believe that You are the king of Spain. That does not mean that you are the actual king of Spain.

    So who is the king of Spain? Who is Jesus, and what is Jesus.

    Human beings have a fantastic ability to fantasize and dream. Human beings also have the ability to think about what they just thought about. Its called reason.

    If Jesus showed up today would you recognize him? Would you recognize a good person if you met them? If this magical person lived inside of you , would you call it Jesus> I doubt it.

    Words never do justice to the things we try and describe.

    Who is a Christian? As far as I am concerned you are if you say you are. But. Would you give the shirt off your back to help your fellow man? Would you give your life to save others?

    Most of all would you want to be helpful?
    Are your motives true.?

    The Adversarial System is one where there is always going to be a fight. Some one has to be right and someone has to be wrong. A winner and a looser.

  16. Today’s reading comes from the Book of Darwin: The Origin of Species.

    Chapter IV: Natural Selection; Or the Survival of the Fittest

    We read:

    “Under nature, the slightest differences of structure or constitution may well turn the nicely balanced scale in the struggle for life, and so be preserved. How fleeting are the wishes and efforts of man! how short his time! and consequently how poor will be his results, compared with those accumulated by Nature during whole geological periods! Can we wonder, then, that Nature’s productions should be far ‘truer’ in character than man’s productions; that they should be infinitely better adapted to the most complex conditions of life, and should plainly bear the stamp of far higher workmanship?”

    Amen. Darwin be with you.

  17. What a false statement!! Judeo-christians values started this country and it is a free country. People want to come here because its free still and there was capitalism. We gave many countries their technology – like Japan, China, etc. NOW-the antigod socialists starting about 50 or more years ago and trying to indoctrinate our children in false darwinism. Its not scientific – just an athiest/agnostic philosophy for god haters. So, they are blaming their opponents that started this country and saying “we are the problem”? THINK NOT!

  18. Not just darwinism but read this article and study it: Mandatory Training in Orwellian Thinking-
    http://www.newswithviews.com/Beritkjos/kjos107.htm

    This is the real problem. The unitarians were at work in our public schools- its all for the glory for the one world government system.


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